Low output single coils put out maybe 80-100mV peak, high output humbuckers can put out a volt or so. Nice amp. AV-1PV Tech Sheet - DI-box with line level and speaker level inputs, with input volume control, data sheet with circuit diagram, pdf file Rate this link CB-1 Direct Box - unixersal DI-box product which works with guitar and keyboards, product datasheet with circuit diagram in pdf format Rate this link I'm looking for more of a classic tube distortion sound, as tonally neutral as possible so that the EQ options on the Tweaker can still shine through (it does a pretty good job of emulating British, American, and Vox AC tones). It is designed to work into a guitar level input, so not a pre-amp. There is also an impedance mismatch, since the average guitar signal is 20k-40k ohms or more whereas line level inputs hover around 10k. You don't need that to simply drop the signal level, a POT or two resistors will do the trick. There is NO harm to the amplifier to have a line level signal taken off the speaker line, it removes an infinitesimal amount of impedance from the signal. You might decide what your lowestattenuation might be, and put a lower boundsresistor under thepot, such that at the lowest setting, the voltage divider ratio isn't100:0. Anyways I was looking at the Tonebone Classic, any opinion? These are passive devices (no power required), in cold rolled steel housings, hand-soldered circuit boards and top-quality components and hardware. Nice amp. However, a lower output impedance feeding the F/X should ADD high end, not remove it. So attenuation of about 20 dB is needed to bring the signals to right level. Thanks for clarifying that for me sreten, I just simulated that "guitar preamp" circuit. Nice thing about playing through a good tube amp--you've already got "classic tube distortion", even somewhat when the amp is clean!Both the pedals I mentioned are more overdrives than fuzzes; they each are designed to push tube amps hard enough to clip themselves (rather than the pedals themselves having much tonality). So it's probably not easily feasible to go from line level to instrument level and back without introducing considerable amounts of noise. Line Level Out 100 Ω To Microphone Input (-) Low Output (-) Low Pin 3 47K Ω Resistor The 3 resistors used above are 1/4 to 1/8 watt metal film at 1% precision. All your gear runs at line level signal. Just because you have the loop doesn't mean it will replace the old setup completely. Generally--some old FX have high output Z). And thanks for the input, you may have noticed I'm a little green on the technical side of audio. It has high power gain (allowing low impedance loading) but low voltage gain - which is nowhere near enough. Mic, instrument and line. Car audio people deal with this all the time too -but they usually aren't intended for more than 20 watts. Try an LF-353. Helpful Hints. The line level signals should be in 0.3..2V range to be suitable for amplifier's line level input. Passive (i.e. The standard XLR 3-pin output connector on most mics can carry mic-level signals or line-level signals. That sounds more like a rack-mounted FX to me (like my old Digitech GSP5). /sreten. It depends on preamp vs. power amp distortion--there's no "right" way here, just preference. Consumer is 775mVrms as I remember, pro audio is something like 1Vrms (1.414V peak) Line level comes in two flavors, consumer line level and pro audio line level. Aug 21, 2018 - This is the simple and low cost 3 channels mini audio mixer circuit diagram. $8.99 $ 8. (Either -10 consumer grade, or +4 pro grade) Consumer and Pro are not judgement calls, just a way to differentiate between the two. Just to make sure we are all on the same page here, microphones generally put out a very low voltage signal, sometimes called “mic level” in our line of work. The microphone input should be pre-amplified. I'm somewhat new to preamps (actually DIY electronics in general) but I've searched the net high and low for a schematic to build a simple preamp with an input for a guitar and a line level output. Instead, you will need to use a DI Box to transform the unbalanced Hi-Z signal to a balanced Lo-Z signal, after which your guitar signal can be safely connected to the XLR input on the mixer. Additionally, the send and return both have a different impedance, would I need to compensate for that? Acxico 1Pcs Car Stereo to RCA Speaker Wire Line Converter Output Adapter High to Low Line Speaker Level Converter High/Low Rotate. One op- amp of the TL082 is used to measure the level of the input signal and the other op-amp is used as a variable-gain amplifier. "I believe instrument level is -10db " -10dB, compared to what? The Line Level Shifter will not affect the quality of the audio, it will improve it. Guitar level is a variable. Some sound better up front. Get it as soon as Wed, Feb 24. Line-- in: 10K, out: 100 Tweaker-- in 220K, out: 600 guitar-- out: 3K to 10K tube amp-- in: 100K to 1M+ The Tweaker is much closer to guitar-level signals than line levels. www.dixieguitarking.com On the channel to your mixer is a line/mic level switch. Dual tone control, presence control and volume control are offered. Most gear that has Line Level inputs are CD and DVD players, consumer electronics like MP3 players, or integrated/consumer PC audio cards. Any more normal guitar pre-amp circuit will work into your AUX. That's what a DI (aka direct box) does. (Note: Inputs and outputs on some higher-end mixers are mic and line level switchable.) guitar). I was able to get 7 dB of gain by reducing the 2.2kohm resistor to 30 ohms and changing the 6.8 kohm resistor to 10kohms. I've determined the problem to be the effects loop (which is at line level), and the previously mentioned pedals won't accept line level signals without a significant volume drop and high-end attenuation. ...good for high impedance sources (i.e. But the specs for the send/return aren't exactly "line level." Adjust the line level feeding the amp until … But the specs for the send/return aren't exactly "line level." The 1/4″ connectors are used for low-level guitar outputs as well as speaker inputs from a … Fairly sure that the effects loop is a +4 dBV though. And some pedals (like a fuzz face) sound best with the input being inductive (pickup) and not so great unless they are first in the FX chain. If you use a guitar with active electronics, you don''t have to worry about this, but the rest of us need to pay attention. I'm also concerned about introducing noise and tone sucking. Re: converting speaker level to line level If it's a 70V system you can just use a transformer with a very low wattage tap. Try adding a buffer after your FX (to lower the output impedance of your stompboxes) and see if the tone-sucking disappears. A preamplifier is required to bring the signal up to line level. Or the "Dirty Little Secret" from Catalinbread. powered connection) and not the 'line out'. Any more normal guitar pre-amp circuit will work into your AUX. I don't recommend the circuit featured in this article for connecting to a PC, you shouldn't need it, and if you use it you may damage your PC. Guitar amps are designed to accept a high-impedance input, and plugging in a low-impedance, line-level signal will result in an increase in amp hiss. Headset Buddy Line-Level Input Audio Plus Headphone Monitoring with Built in Attenuator Adapter for iPhone, Smartphones (Mic-Line Plus) 4.1 out of 5 stars 63 $25.95 $ 25 . What this means is that all the outputs or inputs that are marked as "Line", are usually operating at this voltage. Something like a simple JFET or opamp buffer. The signal is traveling out of your amp to some other destination, such as a PA system or recording gear. Line-- in: 10K, out: 100 Tweaker-- in 220K, out: 600 guitar-- out: 3K to 10K tube amp-- in: 100K to 1M+ The Tweaker is much closer to guitar-level signals than line levels. So my idea is to convert the line level signal being sent from the effects loop to instrument level, run it though my pedals, and then back up to line level and to the loop's return. Line level is the specified strength of an audio signal used to transmit analog sound between audio components such as CD and DVD players, television sets, audio amplifiers, and mixing consoles.. Line level sits between other levels of audio signals. /sreten. Any help is appreciated. Line level is the specified strength of an audio signal used to transmit analog sound between audio components such as CD and DVD players, television sets, audio amplifiers, and mixing consoles.. Line level sits between other levels of audio signals. You can’t plug them directly into the Line Level input or the XLR Mic Input. $8.99 $ 8. Remember, after you''ve finished your box and everything is connected, you need a quality, transparent buffer (aka "line driver") in front of your true bypass strip to keep your tone alive. Only 12 left in stock - order soon. the OTHER way is where you really need an active circuit. Someone had told me they plugged in a cable from an output from a guitar amp into the mixer, but it sounded like it was for an external cabinet (i.e. So not all FX are appropriate for inserting into a send/return. That circuits description is misleading, I'd say. Switchcraft makes such a tube, the part number is S3FM (www.mouser.com, p/n 502-S3FM). FREE Shipping on orders over $25 shipped by Amazon. Using an op-amp might be the quickest way to get you to large gain. The circuit is small enough to fit inside your XLR connector housing. If the input to your audio console is a Molex or AMP connector then connect the resistors at that point. There are high/low-sensitivity switchable inputs for each input channel and… I find it breath-taking that you can take literally $3-4 worth of resistors and some switches and people will pay $315 for it and tout that it doesn't require power and has a 20-20K frequency response. Thanks for you help. there is a battery or so) If it is a Guitar without active components, then it is likely to be "Mic Level" "Unbalanced" and can be either "Hi-Z" or "Lo-Z" depending on pickup/built-in-mic. I find it breath-taking that you can take literally $3-4 worth of resistors and some switches and people will pay $315 for it and tout that it doesn't require power and has a 20-20K frequency response. JT-11-FL provides Isolated Line Output from Guitar Amplifier: AS061: JT-11-FL Isolates & Converts Guitar Amp Speaker Out to Line Output: AS066: JT-DB-E Full-featured “Direct Box” Application Schematic: AS092: JT-11P-1 Balanced Line Level to Unbalanced Guitar Level: AS098: JT-DB-E and JT-11P-1 in Piezo Pickup Amplifier Circuit Microphones put out tiny voltages and require a mic pre-amp to boost the signal to line level. The type of connector (XLR, 1/4″, 1/8″, RCA) does NOT indicate the signal level. Perhaps I worded my question poorly - the problem stems not from a difference in impedance but rather from the pedals inability to handle the +4db signal from the amp. 10 years ago. The circuit is designed for input levels of up to 3 V. Over this level distortion rises, but that may be, naturally, a decent outcome having guitar music. Figure 1. A basic understanding of pickups, potentiometers, capacitors and switches is all you need to get creative and take more control of your instrument's voice on an electronic level. There are weaker signals such as those from microphones (microphone level or mic level) and instrument pickups (instrument level… This would do the trick to get it down to the right level, but how do I get it back up to line level? And those send/return values are within the ranges usually supplied by FX themselves (I.E., once the signal enters an "active" chain, it no longer has the high output impedance of a dry guitar signal. Acxico 1Pcs Car Stereo to RCA Speaker Wire Line Converter Output Adapter High to Low Line Speaker Level Converter High/Low Rotate. If you still want to use your old stompboxes on the loop, the easiest way to drop signal is to insert a voltage divider--I.E., a POT to drop the signal strength. Best Answer Just as you can use a shielded pair, XLR cable equally well for either line-level or mic-level. battery-free) electric guitar circuits are relatively simple and the possibilities for customization are endless. This circuit supplied using 9V power supply. Dual tone control, presence control and volume control are offered. 99. Generally speaking Guitar Outputs are "Line Level" "Unbalanced" "Hi-Z" If the Guitar pickup/electronics are "active" (e.g. And those send/return values are within the ranges usually supplied by FX themselves (I.E., once the signal enters an "active" chain, it no … Answer 10 years ago. Likewise studio folks have devices to take guitar-amp speaker outputs and provide line outputs for direct recording. Sadly, the music shops in my area don't have a very good selection, I've tried that in the past. There are a number of possible solutions. For pads that operate at line level, you can just build it onto a piece of Vectorboard or use a terminal strip or terminal board. It is super important which setting you use for what type of application. Either I don't recognize it when I see it or is this not normally done? -10 dBu (should have gotten my units right in the first place), but I'm pretty sure that that's wrong. Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving, Send a private message to linuxenthusiast, http://www.till.com/articles/GuitarPreamp/, http://www.till.com/articles/PreampCable/index.html, speaker level input vs line level question, lesser of two evils, high level -> line level, digital volume control. It almost amounts to a buffer, with less than 1 dB of voltage gain. … Guitar amps sound different depending on how much level you feed in, so a good test is to directly compare the level you're getting from a guitar plugged directly into the amp and the level you're getting from your line feed. Plenty of dB difference between a single coil pickup and an active humbucker. It's passive so I wouldn't think you could go from -10db to +4db, right? Or will a distortion pedal just totally take over no matter that the amp's EQ is set to? DI's often have a switchable pad so they can accept line level sources (with the pad on) as well as lower level signals from a guitar/bass etc with the pad off. However 220K of input impedance on the Return is a little low, and might load the signal--somewhat. 99. No wonder it sounded quiet. I´ll try to match the impedance with an audio transformer very near to a 9 ratio (to match 150 to 1475 ohms. I'm asking because I was looking to get a line out from a guitar amp to record and I don't want to fry anything. The guitar pickups provide the voltage and current source, while the potentiometers provide the resistance. It has high power gain (allowing low impedance loading) but low voltage gain - which is nowhere near enough. 4.6 out of 5 stars 15. I just really like how the distortion from the amp itself sounds.So I guess I'm wondering what the best way would be to drop the signal down to -10db and then back up to +4db with minimal signal degradation. The standard for Line Level signal is around 750 milivolts. This will lead to an inferior SNR (signal to noise) ratio, and the required boosting will amplify noise, hum, RF interference, etc. So it seems that this Solid State circuit will work for the use Im looking for: plug the guitar on it and it´s output with a common guitar amplifier input. These signals refer to any level put out by an instrument, commonly from an electric guitar or bass. The measured signal level provides feedback, and above a certain threshold, it reduces the level of the variable – gain amplifier. You can get killer overdrive and tone with a clean boost up front and a decent tube amp--it doesn't have to go through the FX loop. Connecting a line-level source to a mic-level input will cause the sound to be loud and distorted because the line-level signal is much stronger than what the mic input will accept. -10dB is a relative, not an absolute measurement. Driver circuits and Op-amps A small input line level signal 100mV to 1V is amplified by the op-amp driver circuit. The Bad Monkey especially is similar to a Tube Screamer.Egnator makes great-sounding amps--I'm sure you can emulate a Fender or a Vox sound pretty easily with the on-board EQ. You can use a DI to take a line level keyboard or mixer output and bring it down to mic level to plug into a mic preamp for example. Any ideas on a way to achieve this, or a better method that hasn't occurred to me? The Tweaker manual outlines that the send/return levels should be controlled by the FX--so it's best to use a box that has input and output levels. The forums are retiring in 2021 and are now closed for new topics and comments. If you need recovery and the pedal itself doesn't have enough gain, use a boost afterwards--a pedal with over-unity gain. The largest difference is the impedance of the Send loop: 600 ohms vs. 5K or so for pickups. For those of you who have a head/cab rig, the speaker jacks on the back of the head are outputs; they send the amplified signal out to the cabinet. Any pedal(s) in particular that you'd recommend? From Ohm's Law we can see how increasing resistance decreases the flow of current through a circuit, while decreasing the resistance increases the current flow. 95 It uses 1/4" smart jacks that accept any combination of unbalanced (TS) or unbalanced (TRS) plugs. To tap a signal off the amp to speaker line is child's play, almost every attenuator and load box has a line level output, or you can use a Red Box or passive DI with a pad. The electronic circuit of the Simple Compressor - Limiter in effect a buffer, allowing a guitar to use long cables without losing top-end. The way the line level signal works is similar to a Hi-Z signal, where a 10k ohm signal is outputted from an electric guitar to drive a 1M ohm (1,000,000 ohm) input on the guitar amp of effect pedal. The circuit is designed for input levels of up to 3 V. Over this level distortion rises, but that may be, naturally, a decent outcome having guitar music. The way the line level signal works is similar to a Hi-Z signal, where a 10k ohm signal is outputted from an electric guitar to drive a 1M ohm (1,000,000 ohm) input on the guitar amp of effect pedal. I think I've found what I'm looking for though, the Seymour Duncan SFX-03 has got some pretty delicious distortion, not too much in the EQ department but I can always use the amp for that. Thanks for commenting! That's a very simple circuit, you certainly don't have to pay $80 for a fancy line level box--which is probably an impedance-converting transformer. So I've got some effects pedals that don't get along with my Egnater Tweaker's effects loop, namely the HBE Frost Bite Flanger, but my Carbon Copy doesn't do too well either. A Variable output is an simple as making R2 be a Potentiometer, withthe center terminal being the Line Out signal (below). Just as you can use a shielded pair, XLR cable equally well for either line-level or mic-level. It is designed to work into a guitar level input, so not a pre-amp. Preamplifiers , Passive Pre-amps, Crossovers, etc. Mic levels are much lower than (typical) line level signals so any equipment designed to work only with microphones as an input may be overloaded when you hit it with a line level signal. Similarly, the “line out” jack on the back of your amp is just that--an output. There are pedals available that will convert a loop to/from line/guitar level, the Fuchs TUBE FX LOOP or Verbrator and also the Pigtronix Keymaster can convert levels for effects loops, and much more. A correctly designed driver circuit is capable of amplifying the signal (perfectly) to the exact height of the + - V rail supply. Get it as soon as Wed, Feb 24. I recommend that before you attempt this connection that you reduce the microphone level to 50% in the audio settings, then connect and check the level. Pushing the amp up front vs. via the return will be different of course...but one is not necessarily better, it depends on taste. Instrument level signals fall between mic level (lower) and line level (higher) signals. Some distortion/boost pedals will have a gain adjust, of course. R1 + P1 valuesshould still be 2K or greater. I agree with Nick, it should be ok just turning the volume down. The easiest enclosure for a mike pad is an XLR Tube. Description of the circuit Speaker level signals are usually in 3..20V range (amplifiers up to 50W output power). in effect a buffer, allowing a guitar to use long cables without losing top-end. Only 12 left in stock - … This will be more of problem if you like to turn your amp up loud. FREE Shipping on orders over $25 shipped by Amazon. 4.6 out of 5 stars 15. It's got a JFET input. I'm thinking at this point it's probably best to just buy a good quality distortion pedal and run everything up front. A mic-level input is typically a female XLR connector. I dunno--what's your taste for distortion?I tend to like pedals like the "Bad Monkey", which is more of an overdrive. "Also, the effects loop is listed as buffered in the manual, although I'm not entirely sure how that affects things..." Yes, clearly those impedance levels are buffered (600 ohm Z for the send), but by nature impedances interact--that's why some pedals like buffers and some don't.